EVE Search - Corporate/Alliance Warfare: Cynosural Jammer mechanics

Check My IP Information

All Channels

Corporation, Alliance and Organization Discussions

Corporate/Alliance Warfare: Cynosural Jammer mechanics

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.28 08:30:00 - [1] CBA to read this so ill just post what i think abt cyno jammers: - they force everyone to blob in one place of the whole system - attackers blob > defenders blob to knock it down (usually) - if defenders use 10-15 carriers hugging just outside pos shields and repping jammer it is unkillable How to fix it? - reduce jammer HP - move it 50k away from POS (so defenders actually RISK something while defending it) - more jammers needed per system? (but thats ONLY if jammer HP is reduced) Reason for this is ability to engage multiple targets and defenders having to watch over multiple structures not only blob in one place.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.28 10:47:00 - [2] Originally by: steveid I have no experiance in doing this myself, but wouldn't you be better with fast moving high damage frigates like ranis' or assault frigates? Large guns wouldn't track and it'd be a hell of a lot cheaper. Failing that what about using a shedload of stealth bombers. After every shot they could recloak as a large POS would I imagine take so long to target that it would find itself unable to target anything. I think that you could probably decloak get a round off and recloak before any defending capitals, the pos and now that sensor boosters have bin nerfed most long range bs' have managed to target you. Anything smaller than that would be alphad. This ofc has the added attraction of being cheap, low skilled and has good ability to defend against both bs fleets and nanofags. As i said I may be missing fundementals here, dont flame, educate :D 15 000 000 armor HP - this is what you missed. Now count pure DPS of those bombers/frigs and add 10 remote armor repping carriers (2 cap reps each) on jammer. And check how long will it take. Even 100 sniper BS (400 dps at 150km easily) prolly wont break jammer which is repped by 10-15 carriers.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.28 16:43:00 - [3] Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 28/01/2008 16:43:27 Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 28/01/2008 16:29:23 The question to ask is really: "SHOULD an attacker have an easy time when attacking the defences of a prepared and active defender?" To me, it seems as most of the arguments in this thread are on the basis of: "We have more numbers! We should be able to run over any defender with minimal losses!" Numbers should only be a deciding point if alliances are equally matched otherwise. A small, but skilled and determined alliance should be able to prevail in defending its territory against a larger, but less skilled and determined alliance (of.c. within reason). BLOBBING SHOULD NOT BE THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS! Since when university of caille had to attack/defend space? And yes - your theory is all cool and dandy unless "blobby alliance" starts defending. Then suddenly your theory doesnt work other way round. small determined defenders vs large noob attack force = defender win large noob defenders vs small determined attack force = defender win large blob vs large blob = larger blob wins. Also it was stated above - atm 10-15 carriers can break ANY assault by just repping cyno jammer. No, carriers cant be killed because they can hug pos shield at 0,1km from its edge - so any attack on carriers will just be broken by carrier moving back and then returning to position. And if you mean that "small number of determined defenders should break larger assault" then how youd propose attackers to set up to win. From what i see you only took part in "im a defender" part of game. So unless you are an attacker you dont have much of an experience to talk from both sides of a barricade.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.28 18:05:00 - [4] Quote: First one is wrong today if the attackers are determined enough (ie. willing to accept losses). It'd be WAY more wrong if the suggestions made in this thread takes effect (they'd not HAVE to accept losses!). Ok: attackers accept losses. Attackers sustain losses. Oops - no more attackers because they cant break spider rep anymore. Thing is you NEED numbers all the time - both to break thru to system, to kill remote repped jammer and to keep said jammer down while caps cyno in. Then you need numbers to defend caps. No, inferior numbers will NOT manage to break any cyno jammed system. If you say otherwise: please show me the proof. Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: Deva Blackfire Also it was stated above - atm 10-15 carriers can break ANY assault by just repping cyno jammer. No, carriers cant be killed because they can hug pos shield at 0,1km from its edge - so any attack on carriers will just be broken by carrier moving back and then returning to position. I'd say 10-15 carriers would be a "prepared and active defender". They CAN be killed if bumped, so the defender IS risking them (not to mention the fact that carriers are pretty easy to jam, thus becoming useless). 1. 10-15 carriers is sth any small alliance can keep in system and muster in case of attack. No they are not "prepared defences". Prepared defences = you are looking at 20-40 (if not more) cap ships. 2. you can NOT bump carrier away from POS if he sits under 0,5km from shields. Try it someday. You will either bump from pos, bump carrier inside (wow he can crawl back no problem) or get stuck yourself and die. Not like we didnt try. Hardin: you took part only in defence of a space. Try next time when you are actually an attacker. As for "cyno jammer gives defender a chance". Because: 1. having all moons (or at least 50%+1) coverage 2. having possibility to time strontium 3. having guns on said POSes and protection of shields Is not helping defender at all. Sorry to burst your bubble but problem with "improved constellation defences" was raised ages ago, just after CCP gave devblog about them. And issues with cyno jammers were already raised but CCP ignored em. Yes cyno jammers are protection from cap ship steamrolls but at the same time they invite "blob warfare" with battleships. Or even they dont invite any kind of "warfare". Its just shooting dead obiect and all defender has to do is properly setup 10-15 ppl in carriers and another 5-10 gunners (no idea how many ppl can man the POS). With those forces you can easily fend off even 100-150 attackers w/o losing anything as YouWhat shown already. Thing is: you are NOT committing yourself to defend pos - you dont risk anything at all by doing so while attacker risks his whole force. Basic idea: move cyno jammer outside of remote rep range (so carriers have to actually move 10km out of POS to rep it). Suddenly defender has to risk sth except his time.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.28 19:03:00 - [5] Originally by: Kerfira The most amazing thing about this entire thread is the amount of WHINE most of the pro-remove-cyno-jammers people can come up with for a very small 'entrance fee' to a cyno-jammed system. Let's put it in perspective, shall we. A T1 (1st or 2nd named) fitted battleship is around 20m ISK these days if you include insurance. I'll repeat that number again: TWENTY MILLION! And what you want to do with t1 (or named fitting) battleship? Pee on jammer? There is a reason ppl use t2 sniperfits nowadays if they can. Quote: So, lets say you're an extraordinarily inept alliance, and manage to loose 50 battleships each time you attack the cyno jammer. That's 100 battleships, or 2 billion ISK in value. THAT'S ONLY ABOUT THE COST OF A DREAD. One - Single - Dread - Without - Fittings ! Losing 50 BS means you will NOT kill jammer. Happy? If "i lose 50 bs but jammer dies" equation would work id pay for those 50bs from my own wallet. But it doesnt. Quote: If you're not willing to pay such a paltry price to gain access for your caps, then I seriously doubt you should be in 0.0. If the dev's give in to your demands, then I also seriously doubt the quote in my sig means anything anymore..... Again: if you lost 50 BS it pretty much means you cant break jammer and your attack was stopped at that point. And to CVA jokeys: no its not abt you as you think (you arent the center of this game if you want it or no). This is all abt problem EVERY alliance which actively fights met. And if you thing cyno jammers arent broken: why thats the ONLY module keeping alliances alive? If you put everything into keeping that jammer alive means sth is wrong out there. You should put ships on line, not module and as soon as module dies run away or disband.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.28 22:06:00 - [6] Originally by: Kerfira some random alt stuff Easy question. When was the last time you ATTACKED jammer? And i mean competent defenders with carriers, assorted fighters ant at least 50 snipers ready. Atm i hear only some rabble abt preparing or "determined defenders". Now i want pure facts. Which system, which combat and result. Unless you cant give me basics i assume you have no clue abt attacking jammers and are as good as any theorycraft forum warrior, that is: useless.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.29 05:07:00 - [7] EVE is PvP game not "sim city in space" thus any system that reduces PvP is wrong. And PvP doesnt mean "player versus POS". And if you dont understand longer sentences ill rephrase this for you: BOTH attacked AND defender need to put ships to risk. NOT only one side. Defender ALREADY has an advantage of having SOV system and POS defences ready plud strontium timing. THREE advantages over attacker. You dont need another free one. There is a saying: give a finger and he'll take whole hand. Atm it looks like this. Plus now i see lots of CVA (+ their alts) posting about "how POS mechanics are ok" wheras they only ever managed to defend POSes using blob(hi to you mr "small number of determined defenders"). And like i said before: its NOT about you. Noone really cares how long it took you to take space. Its your problem that you were ineffective enough so you needed weeks to take over space. Still there are like 20-30 other alliances of which some actually enjoy good PvP not some masochistic "lets wait and bore them to death" game. And again - POS defences nowadays are removing one "P" from PvP. Which is totally wrong in PvP game.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.29 18:29:00 - [8] Originally by: Reash Im summary while the current system is not perfect i believe it is a lot better than the previous state of POS warfare as it removes the focus from Capital ships, You lie. It removes capital ships from ATTACKER. Cyno jammers do not stop defenders using capital ships. So it ends up with attacker (conventional fleet) vs defender (conventional fleet + capital fleet + POS gunfire + hard-to-***** pos modules).

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.